Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

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rudog
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Location: Texoma

Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by rudog »

The Texas legislature is currently considering redefineing the definition of a motorcycle. This has many aspects both good and bad. Several MC Coilitions descended upon Austin this monday to directly address each of their respective representatives. Their were some serious people organising for some serious issues, instilling discipline and resolve into several thousand bikers as they marched onto the Capital grounds, up the front steps of the Capital and rallied to be heard. It was one hell of a party...and an awesome sight.

A new class of endorsement is being considered for "Crotch Rockets". Many MC fatalities and serious injuries involve the passengers of these bikes. Apparently the stance of the rider acts as a launch ramp relative to the seating position of the passenger launching the passenger under hard braking or light impact. People are being killed and the mothers of young, now dead, daughters are pissed.

The wording of language is important in law. Using the descriptive name @POS like "Sport" would effect the Sportster. Using rider posture would effect clip-ons. Using passenger to rider position would effect king/queen seats, etc... Legislators are not riders and this can get out of hand real quick.

I open a discussion, however trivial, on what specifically seperates a "Crotch Rocket" from "All other bikes". I ride an FZ6. It's classed as "Sport Touring", but I call it a crotch rocket. I don't know the words to tell a non-rider the difference.

I've seen the police footage of me riding from highway speed to dismount. I had no idea that I lean forward that much. I've seen pictures of guys 10" taller than me on the same bike. They look like their on a moped. Rider posture is not enough. The proper solution is to enforce that bikes be cutom fit to the rider, and, that grates my spine.

Remember, manufacturers will design to defeat the definition. No one, not one of the smarter than I, nor the more dedicated than I can find the magic bullet to define a crotch rocket. They've reached out to me, and I reach out to you. What's the difference?
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railroad bob
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Re: Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by railroad bob »

It sounds like there is legitimate concern for the safety of passengers, and the perception that operators of a certain class of motorcycle
should be more highly qualified to operate them. Certainly some education about the possible consequences (with strong content) would be appropriate,
including passengers. Possibly a permit system for the passenger themselves, on bikes that fit the criteria. I'm sure it's very exciting for a
young person to be invited for a ride on a powerful race worthy bike, but maybe they should be educated first about the very real dangers.

A classification system of bikes could be considered, defining features (or combinations of features) that are common to each class only.
Power to weight ratio, weight of bike, use of fairings or windshields, ergonomic riding positions of operator and passenger,
placement of controls, length of wheelbase, ground clearance, etc.

Its a slippery slope tho, very easy to start an avalanche of legislation and court cases.
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rudog
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Location: Texoma

Re: Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by rudog »

A slippery slpoe indeed. Trying to get info is like pulling teeth. I'ld like to see the fatality stats that justify this. Mothers of now dead daughters make a powerfull lobby. But, it seams that laws are being created to correct bad parenting. ABATE is trying to write/pass a bill for educating school kids. They've even created a coloring book to get 'em while they're young.

The ultimate eventuallity is the outlawing of motorcycles. Or, at the very least, mandating a custom fit for cycle/rider. The manufacturers won't do it for cost/return. New riders won't do it for cost/trouble. This particular legislation may be to seperate riders into classes to fight each other. Divide and conquer.

I've come to realise that some things are merely a distraction, slight of hand, Houdini politics. I'm going to try to get info on everything the reps are working on. This seems too twisted to be anything but a distraction.
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Re: Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by hansgoudzwaard »

Do the legislators in Texas refer to them as "crotch rockets" ?
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Maxthegardener
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Re: Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by Maxthegardener »

Legislators are not riders and this can get out of hand real quick
oh how true!

but surely it could happen on any bike unless you were physical attatched to it? which could be invinitly more dangerous, here maybe there to you have to pay at least 10%? more on your insuarance to be able to take passengers. personally wouldn't want to take passengers on a sports bike, or crotch rockets as you call them.
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rudog
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Re: Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by rudog »

My state rep said, "...sport bikes. They are typ. called crotch rockets." And that term was used from then on. The riding style and motivation is diff. according to the class. I ride to get from point A to point B. Just like my cars, I want that ride to be as enjoyable as poss. Last year I put twice as many miles on my bike than my car. @53mpg I'm doing the country a favor...and having a blast. I wish I could finish my rigid w/the springy seat. I think it will be a whole new kinda fun.

I'ld be interested hearing of some legislative cause/effect stories from accross the pond. You guys are afterall the testbed for what's going on here now. I liken it to a "Matrix" style means of control or jumping thru hoops.
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railroad bob
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Hi Dan, thanks for your time and energy spent on this new board. I hope you will give me a waiver on the email account, I have used gmail so long I don't have a clue what my service provider account is.
I just returned home from a 2 week trip in New Mexico, have a few good pix, can't wait to share my off-highway traveling. Got to put 1400 miles on the scoot.

Best, Bob Davidson
Location: Alaska

Re: Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by railroad bob »

I can understand the emotions of a mother who has lost a child, the desire to prevent this from happening to others.
I also feel there is a tendency to play the blame game, however unrecognized or unacknowleged it might be.
Pointing the finger at a perceived cause, and unconsciously avoiding or shifting blame.

It seems that education would be the first and most important step, and that should be in the schools.
After all, that's where the vast majority of the kids are. I don't see the need for more laws if the parents and educators take proper preventive actions.
I see the burden for prevention being on them, not on the legal system.
After all, they did it with drinking and driving. How many schools have you driven by and there is a twisted wreck displayed in the front.
Schools have newspapers or newsletters, teachers have a pulpit, principals have an intercom system for announcements, and they have assembly meetings.
Seems a no-brainer to have a school wide mandatory meeting to inform the students about the tragic death of a passenger on a sport bike,
especially if it is a local student many might know. Follow up with more details later to reinforce the consequences of irresponsible riding (including not watching far ahead, not seeing the big picture, getting into vulnerable situations).

Use peer pressure from student leaders and the student body to force acknowlegement from problem riders (and drivers), provide a safe outlet for
performance riding, or riding courses in the curriculum, driver's education could include rider education classes.
I think everyone could agree we all want the children to become proficient vehicle operators, aware of the surrounding area and perform
in a safe manner. That should include motorcycles.

There are already plenty of laws on the books that cover these types of incidents.
Any additional laws are a poorly thought out reaction to an emotional issue.

Pressure the legislators to be proactive with an educational program.
If they resist proactive actions, recognize they are not interested in better safety, but instead, are interested in more control.
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An Armed Society is a Polite Society,...
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
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rudog
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SELF INTRODUCTION: Jack of all. Master of none. Worked in a machine shop since I was 8. Desgined embedded computers for a few years. Done lots in between. If there's anything I've learned with certainty, "Anyone who looks like they know what they're doing is putting on an act."
Location: Texoma

Re: Crotch Rocket...What's the Diff?

Post by rudog »

I agree with you entirely , Bob. It has been suggested that the lagislators are trying to pit the harley riders against the sport riders. That won't work.

Texas ABATE has produced some coloring books for kids in schools. California (or a nearby state) was eager to get their hands on them. The people doing the book couldn't understand how they found out about it. They had not been printed at the time. I've seen them. They did a short run to show the legislators. The pictures are similar to a safety class manual. Really good stuff.

There was also talk of including a motorcycle class alongside drivers ed. Several years ago, the state added a $5 fee to all motorcycle endorsements. If I'm correct, there's over $14M today. An ABATE member is actually writing the bill to present to the Finance Committee to release some of the funds to finance school education programs and other safety related programs.

Your right, though, there are way too many laws on the books. Most are not thought out well. Others have no purpose other than to charge someone with a crime after the fact. Some are simply there for a rainy day and not even enforced. Think of Sandy Hook. Laws did nothing to make the world a better place. They only gave talking points about the 26 some-odd laws that were broken. We could strip all but 10, and it would still be called murder.
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