Rocker re-design for long chop
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- NewB
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.
I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.
To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.
I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.
I am very happy to find this place.
Rocker re-design for long chop
Krymis (and others), firstly, thank you very much for placing your wealth of knowledge on the web. I feel that I have only scratched the surface of my learning with these suspensions, and feel myself being dragged deeper and deeper.
I have a long chop that has been raked to 45*. There is no offset in my trees. Currently the trail is over 12" and the wheel flop is quite pronounced. Here's a crappy pic:
Following your build rules and diagrams I used DraftSight to re-design the rockers. My current front wheel is a 3.00/18 Pirelli MT66. For the CAD, I set the rim diameter at 18" and set the tire sidewall at 90mm.
I set my trail at 0.125" and applied the 90* rule. I set the spring leg hole at half the angle of rake from a horizontal zero...i.e. my rake is 45* so i moved off horizontal 22.5*.
The points are merely hole centers and are not yet scaled for true axle or leg diameters. I would appreciate the board's review, critique, suggestions, etc. Thanks!
Thanks
I have a long chop that has been raked to 45*. There is no offset in my trees. Currently the trail is over 12" and the wheel flop is quite pronounced. Here's a crappy pic:
Following your build rules and diagrams I used DraftSight to re-design the rockers. My current front wheel is a 3.00/18 Pirelli MT66. For the CAD, I set the rim diameter at 18" and set the tire sidewall at 90mm.
I set my trail at 0.125" and applied the 90* rule. I set the spring leg hole at half the angle of rake from a horizontal zero...i.e. my rake is 45* so i moved off horizontal 22.5*.
The points are merely hole centers and are not yet scaled for true axle or leg diameters. I would appreciate the board's review, critique, suggestions, etc. Thanks!
Thanks
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- Conventioneer
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:46 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Hey dan it chris (krymis) from the CBH board. thanks for opening this back up. hope to have a project to show the build here. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH and so on and so forth. The book of revolations and worlds ends and shit like that.....
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
looks good. move your trail to 2" and your 90* angle to 105* and post your drawing. I want to see what you got.
- curt
- Long in the Tooth
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:36 am
- SELF INTRODUCTION: hi everyone its me from the old bord hopeing to see everyone come here and all the newcomers . lets make this as good as the old one or even better . lookin foreward to seeing everyones projects continue and ill be continueing mine too
- Location: utica new york
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
nice ride
ever notice when you hit somethin or someone with a hammer you feel instantly better
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- NewB
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.
I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.
To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.
I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.
I am very happy to find this place.
- Customize IT
- Contributor
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- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:54 am
- SELF INTRODUCTION: I am a young punk kid that needs some help building himself a chopper!!
I am sorry I only have a hotmail account???
Tell me what I need to do I need help with my girder!!!
PLESE HELP????
[url=http://imgur.com/8saXkqN][img]http://i.imgur.com/8saXkqNl.jpg[/img][/url]
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[url=http://imgur.com/fsXGYQw][img]http://i.imgur.com/fsXGYQwl.jpg[/img][/url] - Location: Ohio, USA
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
Killer Chop!
Want more pics?
Want more pics?
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- NewB
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.
I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.
To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.
I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.
I am very happy to find this place.
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
Krymis, can you further explain to me the rationale for setting up with 0.125" of trail?
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- Conventioneer
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:46 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Hey dan it chris (krymis) from the CBH board. thanks for opening this back up. hope to have a project to show the build here. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH and so on and so forth. The book of revolations and worlds ends and shit like that.....
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
I already drew it out. Use a 105* angle between the axle and steering Centerline. Basically you need to flip your angle to the top instead of underneathand use 2" of trial. you should handle great
- gww25
- Site Grandaddy
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
- Location: Murphy, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
That last diagram won't work as shown since the geometry between the rocker pivot points won't allow for full spring compression unless I'm reading the drawing wrong.
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- NewB
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.
I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.
To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.
I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.
I am very happy to find this place.
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
Currently the biggest problem is that the springer doesn't function as a springer at it's current geometry. Currently the only suspension comes from the rear leg flexing.
I thought that by re-designing the rockers I could improve the trail, reduce neck flop, and correct the geometry so that the springer actually, springs, rather than simply flex/bounce on the rear leg tubes.
Today a mechanic buddy and I took more detailed measurements and pulled out the laser. Turns out the rake is 55 degrees, not 45, so this makes all the drawings I did previously not apply.
We are going to jig it up and get the geometry right, it's just going to take some figurin'.
Stay tuned, and thanks for all the replies so far.
I thought that by re-designing the rockers I could improve the trail, reduce neck flop, and correct the geometry so that the springer actually, springs, rather than simply flex/bounce on the rear leg tubes.
Today a mechanic buddy and I took more detailed measurements and pulled out the laser. Turns out the rake is 55 degrees, not 45, so this makes all the drawings I did previously not apply.
We are going to jig it up and get the geometry right, it's just going to take some figurin'.
Stay tuned, and thanks for all the replies so far.
- railroad bob
- Contributor
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I just returned home from a 2 week trip in New Mexico, have a few good pix, can't wait to share my off-highway traveling. Got to put 1400 miles on the scoot.
Best, Bob Davidson - Location: Alaska
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
What he said...curt wrote:nice ride
Is that an Invader front wheel?
Alaska - Land of the Individual and Other Endangered Species
An Armed Society is a Polite Society,...
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
TANSTAAFL
An Armed Society is a Polite Society,...
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
TANSTAAFL
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- NewB
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.
I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.
To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.
I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.
I am very happy to find this place.
- Maxthegardener
- Builder
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:28 am
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Name is Max living in scotland ,and building my first bike, Which is derived from a buellM2 Cyclone..Started with an engine and a Drop seat frame wich was made to my spec by a more experienced builder. would like to learn more about the skills and techniques required to build a frame so I value being a member here...Cheers Max
- Location: Angus, Scotland
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
Are those rockers on upside down?.or is that a stupid question?
- gww25
- Site Grandaddy
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
- Location: Murphy, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
I looked at this all over again and the first diagram you posted would have been close to perfect even with the additional 10-degree rake thrown into the mix.
- gww25
- Site Grandaddy
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:45 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: I'm just an old chopper builders who still dabbles in the craft and I hope that I can contribute something to the discussions as time goes by. Most of you already know that I started the Chopper Builders Handbook site so you're probably already familiar with my philosophy on choppers and chopper work.
- Location: Murphy, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
Just as a side note. On long springers it's pretty typical that about 80% of the perceived suspension comes from the legs flexing which is just to bad but almost unavoidable unless you're using 2-inch diameter legs. When the legs flex then the rockers and springs don't get a chance to work. You can improve this somewhat by changing the angles between the front and rear pivot pin hole locations but you really nee to do this by trial and error so it can get expensive.
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- NewB
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 pm
- SELF INTRODUCTION: Garage builder of choppers. Here to learn, build, ride and have fun.
I currently have a Buell X1 that I have completely torn apart. I sold all the bits but the motor and front forks, and have plugged those into a Paughco rigid frame. My desire is to learn to build and fabricate all the parts myself that I need to build.
To that end I just bought a Miller 165 and am learning to Tig, and I am trying to build up my shop tools.
I have learned a ton from this site just from lurking and decided to jpoin bevcause this site is about building. There are other sites that used to be about the technical aspects of building, but now they discuss what style of vest or jeans or boots they are wearing while riding, Ugh.
I am very happy to find this place.
Re: Rocker re-design for long chop
Krymis and gww25, thanks for your insight. Curt, I haven't forgotten about you, I haven't disassembled the front end yet!
So I have gone back to the drawing board, corrected the rake to 55 degrees. Krymis, as you asked, I went to a 2 inch trail at a 105 degree rule.
Do my results look appropriate? Thanks all!
So I have gone back to the drawing board, corrected the rake to 55 degrees. Krymis, as you asked, I went to a 2 inch trail at a 105 degree rule.
Do my results look appropriate? Thanks all!